Wallace Keys

17 hours ago, Duck said:

This point is something that had no relevance to the issues of the idea. 

Anyway man, I'm telling you right now. I highly doubt people want an INCREASE in sentencing which is the entire catalyst for your idea. 

Deterring people to commit crime and deterring players to play civ are two different things. If people suddenly got numerous hours in prison for murder - thats a drastic change that would result in people leaving from the SERVER, fuck knows that if I had to suddenly spend 3 hours in prison i'd never play civ again. 

Getting caught should be shit, but it shouldn't take away from entertainment, thats why it is 40 minutes max and why people like it as such. 

Cops have certain responsibilities, and I do think the Cops on Anzus (AU) are great for the most part, they are good to RP with but asking them to film is aids, it just is, but thats not my jurisdiction anyway (  Turbo). Cop on a video game is not a JOB, it is a fun bit of role play, yes they RP, yes they follow procedures, but its not a job? Turbo is not a Police Commissioner, he is simply the head of a RP Police department, he keeps logs of players and what not but he doesn't read or file reports of every crime that happened, neither does any of command because their isn't an expectation for police to fill them out - That just sounds boring.  

You have to understand that their is hardcore RP servers, which you have obviously come from. Whilst YES this server is an RP server, its also enjoyable because it doesn't go overboard, there is levels to the extent servers have of expected RP and to be honest, I like what we have here, It would just be annoying to film everything, OBS or not.

Your idea is fine, but the server shouldn't change to fit it it, your idea should change to fit into the server

I'm done with this discussion. I was asked a question and I gave my answer. Don't like it? I don't care, because it is just my own personal answer to a question. You are clearly not open to new ideas because it will slightly inconvenience you, if you aren't willing to listen then there's no point in a discussion. Let's end it there, this isn't going anywhere productive.

9 minutes ago, Duck said:

But expecting a cop to record every single situation? To screenshot? Lets not be ignorant

Yes. Why not? People are acting like this is really inconvenient and difficult to do. Have OBS running in the background, it effects your performance very little and if you can run a heavily modded Arma 3 server then you can run a recording software in the background. It's not like you need to press record before you conduct every arrest, just have it running in the background and upload it if its needed. It isn't difficult to do.

10 minutes ago, Duck said:

Court cases TAKE TIME, oh so much time that a prison sentence would be so much faster, and thats not even skimming the surface.

So increase prison times. I have seen servers that do their sentencing in real life days. While even I think that is a bit extreme, there does need to be an incentive to not just shoot everyone that annoys you. If murder got you 3 hours in prison, people would think twice about committing murder. Murder should be heavily punished, and people should be annoyed that they got caught, that's what stops everyone doing it every day. They know that if they do it and get caught that they will be spending the next 3 hours in prison. No one wants that, so it will discourage people from committing some of the more serious crimes.

12 minutes ago, Duck said:

To literally overhaul cops like this on a server which has had cops the way they are for a while is ridiculous, the cops do a pretty good job to be honest, while being able to have fun, to force them to film every situation is impractical. 

It is not an overhaul. It is running an extra programme in the background. They wouldn't need to rework anything, they would just need to press a few more buttons before joining the server. It is not a hard ask, and it certainly isn't impractical.

13 minutes ago, Duck said:

they are playing a video game, yes a RP game, but its not a job.

And here is where I ultimately disagree. Being a citizen is not a job. Being a citizen is where you can log on, have your fun and go as you wish. When you apply to become a police officer it is because you do want to engage in a higher level of roleplay. You want to dedicate more time to the server. You want to engage in more roleplaying experiences. At least that is what you should see it as, unfortunately most people apply for the buzz of getting to legally shoot people. When you apply for an additional position, you are agreeing to take on more responsibilities. You are saying you will be regularly active on the server. You are saying you want to engage in less casual roleplay. Asking them to run a recording programme in the background is not making them work very hard. On every major server which has had a justice system, it has worked, and it has worked without bringing any of the issues anyone is describing.

17 minutes ago, Duck said:

IF someone wishes to dispute their crimes then boom, they call their lawyer, organise bail and any other restrictions on the accused until the court case - one such situation i had was that he wasn't leave the state. 

This can still happen. You can still call your lawyer, have them organise bail and any other restrictions. Things like this will only ever go to court if the police make an issue out of it. If they don't want to make an issue out of it, they can organise this exact thing. Same thing with sentencing, if the police want to work out a deal to avoid court in exchange for a lesser sentence, they can. The police will have the power to avoid court if that is their only priority.

19 minutes ago, Duck said:

Its just not worth it to most Civ, they don't get anything if they win and if they lose they add more time to their sentence PLUS the fact that the court case had taken up time already - They wouldn't happen and they DONT happen, because to be fair most people in police custody have done something wrong.

It would be if jail times were increased. They would much rather spend 30-40 minutes organising a trial than 3 hours in jail for murder. And if they are proven guilty, they get 4.5 hours in jail for murder. That is why the guilty will be apprehensive about going to trial, and the innocent will want to go to trial. About the last part, the courts aren't just used for people who are arrested on the spot. Detectives can build a case over a long period of time, and then go to court with it all by issuing an arrest warrant on someone. The accused may then want to go to trial because if the investigation proves right, they could be going for a very long time, so they would be encouraged to try and fight some or all of the charges.

23 minutes ago, Duck said:

Yeah guess we could just recruit people right - Then train the judges into the LEGAL system, which I assume you know is very complex - Dumb it down? Sure! Still need to teach people, but its the same with anything. But Willingness, I think I'd be safe in assuming being a lawyer or judge is a very niche market on an RP server so what do you propose we do for those people? 

I have spent all this day with a friend of mine crafting legal guides and documents for if this was to come into effect. It would not take long to grasp on how to do it. It's not a big complicated thing. We would simply hand these short documents over to anyone wanting to become a lawyer, perform a quick Bar exam and then allow them to begin practising. 

I also disagree with your last point. A lot of big gangs will hire or have one of their members take up law to get the gang members out of tricky situations. If the gang is being investigated, their lawyer could help with that. Even just having one on standby can make situations more enjoyable because the police know they cant just illegally arrest the baddies so they need to find clever ways to get a conviction.

26 minutes ago, Duck said:

C'mon, they shouldn't be a cop because they don't record every situation? Thats just SILLY. So so SILLY.

Yes. If they are complaining that they need to do a bit more due diligence to earn their extra benefits and advantages, then I honestly believe they aren't fit to be police. Any good role player will look at this as an opportunity to nail some bad guys that they could never catch in the act, not some hindrance that will make every traffic stop a pain. When this is used, it will be for serious crimes. If you cannot record even a shred of evidence that a serious crime took place, you shouldn't be a police officer.

29 minutes ago, Duck said:

Yeah I guess you could say they can witness statement and use police reports or whatever but like against the defences one sided video, no chance

There is no such thing as a one sided video of an event. A recording of what happened is a recording of what happened no matter who it has come from. If any side lies about what happened and is proven wrong in any video, then that's the liars fault, not the person recording.

30 minutes ago, Duck said:

Criminal cases are just to much right not, it would take to much overhauling to be worth it and would do more harm then good, In my opinion, and trust me I already wanted criminal cases

But it would. I have played the UK server for a few hours and numerous times I have seen police just ignore gangs because one cop trying to arrest 3 guys with heavy armour and custom LMGs is not going to end well. If that one cop could just click F12, and send it to the DA, then the DA can start forming a case against the guys and eventually all those little crimes could add up and get a large conviction. 

Case in point, earlier a black van with two men pulled up to the PD. They had 7.62 rifles and illegal vests on, and the cop that was there did nothing but chat to them. Why would he try do anything? He would have been dead. Had he been able to screenshot that and send it to a prosecutor, those men might be arrested and charged one day even if they got away with it in the moment. 

1 hour ago, JarJarGamer said:

There's already shit for this. If you don't think the prison sentence wasn't fair then take the pd to court, take the officer to IA.

 

I'm not going to sit in court and pull evidence out of ass when I can't record in the first place.

 

Then tough. There are certain requirements in order for you to become a police officer, one of them should be that you need to record your encounters. If your superior told you to start doing it you wouldn't get a choice, you would need to do it or quit. Again, it was only a suggestion.

2 minutes ago, RoddaI said:

Well no if a civ want to challenge it that you don’t just throw it out because there is no judge that goes against your whole point plus if people want to appeal something to go to court you can alway go here if you are wrongly arrested and have your own proof 

https://anzusgaming.invisionzone.com/forum/176-request-court-case/

the fact that you are now backtracking your whole idea stating if there are no judges or lawyers you don’t need evidence as there can be no case means you haven’t thought this through enough 

mans as far as criminals being more careful they won’t be and every time one is arrested they will straight away go do you have proof trying to get away with everything

I'm not saying we need to throw the case out. I am saying that if there is no judge online, you cannot go to court. Which you cannot. If the accused still wants to enter an innocent plea then of course they can use the forums to request a case, but they can't get one until a judge comes online. Not once did I say that if there is no judges online then you don't need evidence. You said that. I'm not backtracking on anything, you said that judges will need to be online 24/7 and I used an example that just because the cops aren't on 24/7 doesn't mean we should scrap the police force. I don't need to think it through, it works. I know it works, because it always works. It worked on Metropolis and every other server I have seen it tried on. You just don't want to give up some of your power.

Look, I am not going to keep arguing about this. It is a good idea, I know it is, and people agree with me. If you don't like it, that's okay, but it isn't even a thing yet and possibly won't ever be, so let's not get into a whole argument over a suggestion which hasn't even been implemented. 

1 minute ago, RoddaI said:

The thing is JKeys everyone records bugs player reports ect because they don’t happen all the time it’s pretty rare to need to record more than one a day maybe but for cops they won’t want to have to record 10 arrests a day or something like that just in case they choose to say they didn’t do it or some shit where they than need to upload 10 videos a day, go to court 10 times a day because the civ said he wanted to challenge it and can’t back down if there’s evidence and means we also need a judge, lawyers constantly online to deal with all of it 

If there is no judges online then there will be no court case. Just like if there are no cops online there would be no arrest. If 10 civilians want to challenge it a day then so be it. It's their right. It may be annoying, but no one is forcing you to be a cop. If you can't handle the responsibilities of a police officer, then don't be a cop and let someone who can handle it have your slot. This will add to the roleplaying experience. Cops will be more thorough, and the criminals will be more careful.  

Just now, RoddaI said:

Ok than how is than someone is doing fed you kill 5 of his mates and gaze the last he is under arrest but no one is recording he can just go nah I wasn’t there where’s your evidence and since no one is recording what he goes free?

plus you say longer jail time but right now divs complain there to long so I wouldn’t want to increase them 

Precisely. If someone kills 5 people and you get no evidence, that is your own fault. Proof is not just a recording, it can be witness statements, screenshots etc. But why wouldn't you be recording anyway? You are fine having to record proof for reporting a player but not when you want to lock them up? 

To address your second point, if people are complaining that prison times are too long then why not add a way in which they can reduce their time or get out free? 

Look, it doesn't take much effort to record your screen. Especially if you are a cop, there's no reason not to. Most people you arrest will just take a guilty plea to avoid the risk of an even longer jail time, and as long as you aren't abusing your role and charging them with things they didn't do, they have no reason to go to court.

11 minutes ago, RoddaI said:

The issue is jkeys we arrest that many people a day hat you would go from playing the game to tabbed out collecting evidence, logging it, dealing ng with court cases that it turns from an active cop force to a desk jockey simulator 

And with a criminal justice system, hopefully we could discourage people from committing so many crimes because one screenshot could result in a long jail time. You really are overthinking this, trust me. Metropolis was a huge RP server and it had a good justice system because it was very well organised. Being a cop shouldn't just be a fun thing. You gain certain in game advantages like your weapons and power over citizens, but you also gain additional responsibilities. One of those responsibilities should be to prove the people you arrest are guilty. If you can't handle your tough responsibilities, you shouldn't gain the additional benefits of being a cop. Simple as. You aren't being paid to be a government sanctioned gang member, you are being paid to be a police officer. That means proving guilt. It doesn't mean becoming a desk jockey, it means pressing F12 on your keyboard when someone has a gun out they shouldn't have. It means having your partner hit record on OBS when you are about to enter a chase with a vehicle. It means asking your ambulance driver to confirm that they gave you help. Again, it is tedious, but that is the price you need to pay if you want the added fun of being a cop. 

Again, I'm not saying I want video evidence of someone speeding. Tickets and fines are something for you to deal with as you see fit. But if you want to lock someone up then yes, you have a responsibility to show why. You can't just be in the police force to serve your own selfish lust for a more action-packed RP experience without giving anything back. You want that extra fun? Fine, but you need to give something back. How do you think the people you lock up feel that you have so much power over them with no chance of appeal? Listen, this works. It requires a bit more effort from the police force, but that is the price that comes with the extra power you get and more action. 

1 minute ago, Duck said:

this is a thing I've had cases like this but they always get thrown out by the civ as it is less hassle, I've had a few people on "bail" who end up just paying the fine because it IS tedious. 

The mechanics are all in, its just about civs wanting to do it, which they mostly don't. 

Well that's the thing it is entirely optional for the civs. If they want to just admit guilt and take the standard jail time then they can, and no one will force them to take a court case. 

25 minutes ago, RoddaI said:

In my opinion easiest way to kill of the police force might be fine for a week or so but people will just get sick of recording everything and having to provide it as evidence 

That is what roleplaying as a police officer is. If you just want to kill people or jail them then that is not life roleplay, that is war roleplay. If you cannot be bothered to download one free recording software and have it record in the background then in my opinion you shouldn't be a cop. Roleplaying a police officer means following potential criminals and gathering evidence and then charging the criminal in court to get a conviction. That is what roleplaying as a police officer is. Also, it won't be a huge inconvenience for the police officer. That's why we have prosecutors. All the police will have to do is drag and drop a .mp4 file into a google doc and the prosecutor will do the rest of the work unless they need a testimony. Plus, look at all of the police applications. Do you really think it would harm the server to narrow down the number of people who wanna be police?

36 minutes ago, JarJarGamer said:

How about No? I don't want to pull evidence out of my ass every time I do something to a civ 

Well then I don't believe you should be a police officer. If you are fine throwing someone in prison for 40 minutes but can't be bothered to prove they actually did something wrong then you aren't doing the job you signed up for. You are serving the civilians. You are giving up some of your freedoms to better the server and roleplaying experience. If you aren't willing to spend a maximum of 40 minutes missing out on your roleplaying experience gathering evidence, then why should you be able to force someone else to spend 40 minutes of their roleplaying experience in prison? 

Don't think of this as a hindrance. Think of it as an enhancement. You won't need to prove someone was speeding, you won't be going to court for every crime, just the more serious ones. Also think of how fun it could be for the police department to have its own detectives who screenshot and record people doing illegal things, gathering evidence over a long period of time and then serving them with a list of charges and proving the crimes in court for a long sentence. It will discourage criminals from just whipping out guns and killing people willy nilly because they will fear that getting away from the chaser isn't enough. 

I don't know if this is gonna be well received or not, however something I find absolutely essential in the servers I play is a real justice system including criminal law, not just civil law.  I know that this is very complicated and time consuming, but it adds a whole new aspect of roleplay. It makes it an actual roleplay server as opposed to a cops vs robbers server. 

Now let me make myself clear. I am not talking about dragging someone to court because they drove 15 mph over the speed limit. Generally the way I see it happen is that you are arrested and the police will automatically carry out the sentence if the punishment is less than a certain amount of jail time. If the sentence for the crimes exceeds, let's say half an hour, or if the accused refuses to pay a fine over say, $100,000, then they can request a court case. If they win the court case they go free, if the are found guilty however, they are sentenced to the jail time they would have got plus an additional 50%.

For example, let's say the sentence for murder is 120 minutes. Someone is caught by the police and charged with murder. They can plead guilty, and receive a 40 minute sentence, or they can plead innocent and go to court. This could be because they genuinely are innocent, or because they believe the police don't have enough evidence for a conviction. If they go to court and are found innocent, they get let free there and then. If they are found guilty, they serve the original 40 minutes, plus an additional 20 minutes (50% extra) for wasting court time.

I know this seems tedious, but it really adds a whole new dynamic to the criminal justice system and creates a whole new load of players who are interested in being actual lawyers, judges, etc. I served as Supervisory Lawyer of Metropolis, and the Chief Justice of another popular RP server. I have experience in this field, and I would be more than happy to handle the creation of any documentation that would be needed if you don't want to waste time on this, but this is a huge part of what keeps me interested in servers. I think a good justice system is exactly what you need to give you that extra edge over other RP servers, and again I would help in any way I can and expect no reward at all. I will go through the same process as everyone else and won't expect any rewards or anything in case you think I have some other agenda in offering my help.