Duck

hey thats kinda cool

holy...shit yes

4 hours ago, SirGunnerB said:

Helloooo 

This is a chad post

Very excited

1 hour ago, JKeys said:

But it would. I have played the UK server for a few hours and numerous times I have seen police just ignore gangs because one cop trying to arrest 3 guys with heavy armour and custom LMGs is not going to end well. If that one cop could just click F12, and send it to the DA, then the DA can start forming a case against the guys and eventually all those little crimes could add up and get a large conviction. 

Case in point, earlier a black van with two men pulled up to the PD. They had 7.62 rifles and illegal vests on, and the cop that was there did nothing but chat to them. Why would he try do anything? He would have been dead. Had he been able to screenshot that and send it to a prosecutor, those men might be arrested and charged one day even if they got away with it in the moment. 

This point is something that had no relevance to the issues of the idea. 

Anyway man, I'm telling you right now. I highly doubt people want an INCREASE in sentencing which is the entire catalyst for your idea. 

Deterring people to commit crime and deterring players to play civ are two different things. If people suddenly got numerous hours in prison for murder - thats a drastic change that would result in people leaving from the SERVER, fuck knows that if I had to suddenly spend 3 hours in prison i'd never play civ again. 

Getting caught should be shit, but it shouldn't take away from entertainment, thats why it is 40 minutes max and why people like it as such. 

Cops have certain responsibilities, and I do think the Cops on Anzus (AU) are great for the most part, they are good to RP with but asking them to film is aids, it just is, but thats not my jurisdiction anyway (  Turbo). Cop on a video game is not a JOB, it is a fun bit of role play, yes they RP, yes they follow procedures, but its not a job? Turbo is not a Police Commissioner, he is simply the head of a RP Police department, he keeps logs of players and what not but he doesn't read or file reports of every crime that happened, neither does any of command because their isn't an expectation for police to fill them out - That just sounds boring.  

You have to understand that their is hardcore RP servers, which you have obviously come from. Whilst YES this server is an RP server, its also enjoyable because it doesn't go overboard, there is levels to the extent servers have of expected RP and to be honest, I like what we have here, It would just be annoying to film everything, OBS or not.

Your idea is fine, but the server shouldn't change to fit it it, your idea should change to fit into the server

1 hour ago, JKeys said:

I'm not saying we need to throw the case out. I am saying that if there is no judge online, you cannot go to court. Which you cannot. If the accused still wants to enter an innocent plea then of course they can use the forums to request a case, but they can't get one until a judge comes online. Not once did I say that if there is no judges online then you don't need evidence. You said that. I'm not backtracking on anything, you said that judges will need to be online 24/7 and I used an example that just because the cops aren't on 24/7 doesn't mean we should scrap the police force. I don't need to think it through, it works. I know it works, because it always works. It worked on Metropolis and every other server I have seen it tried on. You just don't want to give up some of your power.

Look, I am not going to keep arguing about this. It is a good idea, I know it is, and people agree with me. If you don't like it, that's okay, but it isn't even a thing yet and possibly won't ever be, so let's not get into a whole argument over a suggestion which hasn't even been implemented. 

I get what you want to achieve, I'm a Lawyer perhaps the one thats done the most case possibly (on the server) And nothing makes me happier to see criminal cases. But expecting a cop to record every single situation? To screenshot? Lets not be ignorant. Court cases TAKE TIME, oh so much time that a prison sentence would be so much faster, and thats not even skimming the surface.

Lets get some basics out of the way; 

• This server has already got a certain stigma and expectations around cop
  • To literally overhaul cops like this on a server which has had cops the way they are for a while is ridiculous, the cops do a pretty good job to be honest, while being able to have fun, to force them to film every situation is impractical. Cops would have to change, and it wouldn't be for the better in relation to this server, of course you can always talk to Turbo how he feels but honestly, keeping records, notes, evidence and any other information required for a case it a waste of a persons space and time, they are playing a video game, yes a RP game, but its not a job. IF someone wishes to dispute their crimes then boom, they call their lawyer, organise bail and any other restrictions on the accused until the court case - one such situation i had was that he wasn't leave the state. Then court case, whereby extra faith should be put into police reports and statements as that is likely the only evidence they will have. 
•  Punishment
  • Its just not worth it to most Civ, they don't get anything if they win and if they lose they add more time to their sentence PLUS the fact that the court case had taken up time already - They wouldn't happen and they DONT happen, because to be fair most people in police custody have done something wrong. If punishments were so bad that a court case was appealing then they'd be to long, I mean 20/40 minutes is quite a bit all things considered - add an extra 20 if they lose plus the hour or so they lose in the court case + court fees and....Yeah I don't see it happening
• Lawyers and Judges
  • From what I know Dragon and I are the only Lawyers to even do a case - could be wrong but the number is small. Dragon is gone now (I think) so that leaves us with a few active Lawyers and about 3 judges. Yeah guess we could just recruit people right - Then train the judges into the LEGAL system, which I assume you know is very complex - Dumb it down? Sure! Still need to teach people, but its the same with anything. But Willingness, I think I'd be safe in assuming being a lawyer or judge is a very niche market on an RP server so what do you propose we do for those people? let them commit crime? hmm. 
• Evidence
  • C'mon, they shouldn't be a cop because they don't record every situation? Thats just SILLY. So so SILLY. Hop on co, film everything, please, then keep it there until the person is finished the jail sentence. Seriously, do it. That just so Silly. Yeah I guess you could say they can witness statement and use police reports or whatever but like against the defences one sided video, no chance. Unless their a a mechanic implemented that lets cops "gather evidence" from a crime scene then no, just...no.

There needs to be a real expectation for this suggestion, which I understand is a suggestion, but it changes so much that I doubt many cops would want, but hey, bring it up with the big man, talk to Turbo, talk to Jack Fire but understand that there is no practicality to this idea, people more then likely want to get on with their day, Cops and Civs, and if a person is wrongfully arrested just let it be a civil case, they get more from it anyway. 

Criminal cases are just to much right not, it would take to much overhauling to be worth it and would do more harm then good, In my opinion, and trust me I already wanted criminal cases

4 hours ago, JKeys said:

I don't know if this is gonna be well received or not, however something I find absolutely essential in the servers I play is a real justice system including criminal law, not just civil law.  I know that this is very complicated and time consuming, but it adds a whole new aspect of roleplay. It makes it an actual roleplay server as opposed to a cops vs robbers server. 

Now let me make myself clear. I am not talking about dragging someone to court because they drove 15 mph over the speed limit. Generally the way I see it happen is that you are arrested and the police will automatically carry out the sentence if the punishment is less than a certain amount of jail time. If the sentence for the crimes exceeds, let's say half an hour, or if the accused refuses to pay a fine over say, $100,000, then they can request a court case. If they win the court case they go free, if the are found guilty however, they are sentenced to the jail time they would have got plus an additional 50%.

For example, let's say the sentence for murder is 120 minutes. Someone is caught by the police and charged with murder. They can plead guilty, and receive a 40 minute sentence, or they can plead innocent and go to court. This could be because they genuinely are innocent, or because they believe the police don't have enough evidence for a conviction. If they go to court and are found innocent, they get let free there and then. If they are found guilty, they serve the original 40 minutes, plus an additional 20 minutes (50% extra) for wasting court time.

I know this seems tedious, but it really adds a whole new dynamic to the criminal justice system and creates a whole new load of players who are interested in being actual lawyers, judges, etc. I served as Supervisory Lawyer of Metropolis, and the Chief Justice of another popular RP server. I have experience in this field, and I would be more than happy to handle the creation of any documentation that would be needed if you don't want to waste time on this, but this is a huge part of what keeps me interested in servers. I think a good justice system is exactly what you need to give you that extra edge over other RP servers, and again I would help in any way I can and expect no reward at all. I will go through the same process as everyone else and won't expect any rewards or anything in case you think I have some other agenda in offering my help. 

this is a thing I've had cases like this but they always get thrown out by the civ as it is less hassle, I've had a few people on "bail" who end up just paying the fine because it IS tedious. 

The mechanics are all in, its just about civs wanting to do it, which they mostly don't. 

Eh, I don't see why it should matter either way to be honest. I get the premise and all but I don't think its required

totally understand the theory of it, but in reality i think its harsh to take away an aspect to the current community. Both arguments have their positive and negatives but I just don't think its necessary, but if it is added then cool. 

46 minutes ago, Turboman said:

Alright. 

Both Highway and Dog squad have been in my mind since I first came over on Metro. Currently I'm running GD as no one is stepping up, thus why no one is getting promoted into GD command roles, as no one is wanting to step up into them, which in turn means these "sub-divisions" can't be rolled until that is done, as I'm just one person. Dyna has DTU to work on, Vega has SRG, and we all juggle watching over Academy, and I've been doing what I can for GD and Academy in terms of fleshing things out (Patrol Handbooks, Assessment guides, etc). 

I'm still waiting to see the potential in someone wanting to step up and lead, to hand a commanding role in GD to, but currently no one is. 

This is a good point. Literally Perfect. 

I have not doubt in my mind that the quantity of effort you put into work would destroy me, but I think - and I don't mind to overstep my presence - If there was an official statement similar to the one you have made here (Much like what SirGunner did with the Proposed Changes to EMS) I think you would create a much larger incentive for this and thus begin to see these "Step-ups." Maybe you shouldn't have to entice leadership, but if its not there then I believe there is no harm in doing so, and I can prove this within EMS experiences. 

Announce a new opportunity and people will work their ass off to prove they want it. I can already name people that would want this. Hell if Maritime was considered i would be interested (But I don't think i want to leave EMS - Love you Gunner) 

I think that awareness and communication is an incredible power to have at your finger-tips. 

2 minutes ago, Turboman said:

No. 

Why not though? At this point in time there are what? 3 divisions? PolAir, SRG and DTU - You aren't MEANT to be apart of numerous divisions -  hm - and it opens up more substance for GD officers who aren't able to join the VERY limited amount of spaces in the current divisions. 

This isn't my idea only either, it has been passed around a few time for Highway Patrol, Dog Squad, Maritime, re-classify PolAir as a sub division. And its not like you don't have the people for it. DTU & SRG have like 6 slots each or whatever it is but its minimal. 

They don't have to be super in-depth but it can create some uniqueness. Those with Dog Squad licence can only buy/use Dogs....yadda yadda.  

I think that GD can look unappealing and to add just a small touch of interest to it could be something new for those who have been GD for ages and what something new.

You have the people who are interested in leading these as well, not that they need to be strictly watched and fleshed out (they would still be under complete GD Jurisdiction) but there are people who would work for these, create the SOP's, recruit and train the people. 

Finally it means the not being in SRG or not being in DTU, which have limited slots, doesn't leave you left out. People will not make it into DTU and people won't make it into SRG but they can still have the chance to do something special and unique. 

Finally there is a surplus of scripts and mods that can flesh these sub divisions out but as it stands, giving them their own little jurisdiction could even be enough.

Obviously I'm not on cop much and perhaps I don't have the same perspective as you but I have heard a few cops speak of these ideas and I think that it is relatively harmless to implement such things whilst boosting the interest of Cops. It gives people a chance to shine in their own respective rights, to prove their leadership on more occasions and creates a better RP interdependence situation within the Force.  

Thats my input for the day, but I think this should deserve more then "No." It opens more opportunities  then it shuts and doesn't even require much change to the fundamental aspects of the server.  

3 minutes ago, Turboman said:

Ummm.

Yes?

You need to keep these sorts of posts up, Holy shit. 

I'm just happy to see whats coming

EDIT*

Perhaps with the underwater/boat major crime(s) Cops could get a sub division of GD like the maritime??