Assault Rifle/Class 3 re-implementation discussion

[Jammal Murray]

8 minutes ago, Tariq Jamal said:

so cap zones will be everyone roaching cause they are gear fear

no thanks

or maybe people won't do them with class 3s and use class 2s... you don't need a class 3 for everything, sure it's difficult to fight class 3s with less fire power but it's doable if you have the strategy for it; yea fights will look more different but is that a bad thing? 

You are going to not like this statement but most fights with military grade weapons at are not ArmA pvp run and gun; they take more time and involve more strategy; "gear fear" is good, it adds more value of life meaning you'll see people doing shit more realistic, taking their time and not zurg rushing like they don't give a shit. You don't see half the shit you see in anzus because people actual value their life in combat and try not to put themselves in positions that get them killed. If someone is worried to get killed cause of their gear they will be making more strategic manuavers.

Yes combat players won't like it because tbh they love the sprint around, lag rush and push methods. Combat will overall be more thought out; I know how horrible that you need to be smarter and more strategic in how you do your fighting.

In simple terms you'll need to stop playing checkers and start playing chess... but as far as anzus combat players go... you'll need to stop playing connect 4 and start playing chess.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jammal Murray

[Patrick Lee]

7 minutes ago, Jammal Murray said:

Class 3s irl are also not used by criminals on a day to day... most criminals that have full auto are organized crime and use it in situations that call for it (more often than not to my understanding; gang on gang violence's).

In the end of they day these are tools; expensive tools that aren't just thrown about in every scenario, in the system people will need to be more careful with their class 3 and will need to make decisions based on risk/reward with that gun. So I feel we will not see a whole load of full auto shoot outs all the time but more so thought out plans and crimes; this will make it so that class 3s are not a common casual thing but more so an "oh shit they have class 3s" kind of situation.

Irl they ain’t having shootouts or cap zones every 30 mins 

[Patrick Lee]

1 minute ago, Jammal Murray said:

or maybe people won't do them with class 3s and use class 2s... you don't need a class 3 for everything, sure it's difficult to fight class 3s with less fire power but it's doable if you have the strategy for it; yea fights will look more different but is that a bad thing? 

You are going to not like this statement but most fights with military grade weapons at are not ArmA pvp run and gun; they take more time and involve more strategy; "gear fear" is good, it adds more value of life meaning you'll see people doing shit more realistic, taking their time and not zurg rushing like they don't give a shit. You don't see half the shit you see in anzus because people actual value their life in combat and try not to put themselves in positions that get them killed. If someone is worried to get killed cause of their gear they will be making more strategic manuavers.

Yes combat players won't like it because tbh they love the sprint around, lag rush and push methods. Combat will overall be more thought out; I know how horrible that you need to be smarter and more strategic in how you do your fighting.

This combat promotes a dayz style of play which is not fun for anyone. Sitting and holding an angle for 30 mins is ridiculous and takes the enjoyment out of it for most people.

[Tariq Jamal]

12 minutes ago, Jammal Murray said:

or maybe people won't do them with class 3s and use class 2s... you don't need a class 3 for everything, sure it's difficult to fight class 3s with less fire power but it's doable if you have the strategy for it; yea fights will look more different but is that a bad thing? 

You are going to not like this statement but most fights with military grade weapons at are not ArmA pvp run and gun; they take more time and involve more strategy; "gear fear" is good, it adds more value of life meaning you'll see people doing shit more realistic, taking their time and not zurg rushing like they don't give a shit. You don't see half the shit you see in anzus because people actual value their life in combat and try not to put themselves in positions that get them killed. If someone is worried to get killed cause of their gear they will be making more strategic manuavers.

Yes combat players won't like it because tbh they love the sprint around, lag rush and push methods. Combat will overall be more thought out; I know how horrible that you need to be smarter and more strategic in how you do your fighting.

have you actually read the thread ?

you would see that us "combat players" are all for more rp but you have to understand this is arma not IRL  stop acting like us combat players are just shutting down your ideas and attacking you.

 

if what you suggested happens the servers combat will die and it will be boring alot of players will either stop playing or just go to cop so they get cheap kits and can pvp

 

 

i myself have even got into crafting and i am not against most things said in this thread, read the thread jammal and come up with ideas that make both party's happy like everyone else has

 

strategic maneuvers= camping/roaching/making everything longer for no reason at all

most majors cops have to zerg or they wont win

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tariq Jamal

[Jammal Murray]

15 minutes ago, Tariq Jamal said:

have you actually read the thread ?

you would see that us "combat players" are all for more rp but you have to understand this is arma not IRL  stop acting like us combat players are just shutting down your ideas and attacking you.

 

if what you suggested happens the servers combat will die and it will be boring alot of players will either stop playing or just go to cop so they get cheap kits and can pvp

 

 

i myself have even got into crafting and i am not against most things said in this thread, read the thread jammal and come up with ideas that make both party's happy like everyone else has

 

strategic maneuvers= camping/roaching/making everything longer for no reason at all

most majors cops have to zerg or they wont win

 

not once have a said you are attacking me; I have proposed a counter to the argument you have presented. I am also not saying that combat players are against RP...

...personally from what I have seen though... combat players scrolling through disliking any proposition that is not option 3 without even proposing a counter. I digress though.

The suggestion I have presented does not kill combat; as I said class 2s should be available meaning you can do Cap Zones with other weapons. I am simply saying that you do NOT need class 3s to do cap zones etc... and that making class 3s more valuable and harder access means people will be using them more sparingly...

If everyone doesn't want to lose their class 3s at cap zones than most people will use class 2s...

I am all for a good mix of combat; but clearly we can't just have 5.5 or 3.0 of super easy to get class 3s where pretty much everyone has one and their is minimal consequence to use or lose one. 

"strategic maneuvers= camping/roaching/making everything longer for no reason at all"
Your exactly right that's what it is; that more realistic and still requires skill and tact. yea it's not KOH fast paced but it still works...  I have personally had very exciting shootouts that take time and are more drawn out. ArmA itself is built for this kind of combat. In this case it also wouldn't be "for no reason at all" it'd make sense as people wouldn't want to be killed.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jammal Murray

[Patrick Lee]

Just now, Jammal Murray said:

not once have a said you are attacking me; I have proposed a counter to the argument you have presented. 

The suggestion I have presented does not kill combat; as I said class 2s should be available meaning you can do Cap Zones with other weapons. I am simply saying that you do NOT need class 3s to do cap zones etc... and that making class 3s more valuable and harder access means people will be using them more sparingly...

If everyone doesn't want to lose their class 3s at cap zones than most people will use class 2s...

I am all for a good mix of combat; but clearly we can't just have 5.5 or 3.0 of super easy to get class 3s where pretty much everyone has one and their is minimal consequence to use or lose one. 

This also creates a huge imbalance with civs vs cops, are cops going to have to carry a class 2 and 3 on them for situations / cops guns will be cheaper than civs allowing them to push civs with no gear fear.

[Jammal Murray]

8 minutes ago, Patrick Lee said:

This also creates a huge imbalance with civs vs cops, are cops going to have to carry a class 2 and 3 on them for situations / cops guns will be cheaper than civs allowing them to push civs with no gear fear.

I agree that this could be an issue; but remember that cops use C3s against C2s anyhow.

Perhaps even have most cops carry class 2s and only swat has class 3s? 
This would also add to the "oh shit factor" of class 3s where a regular cop would need  to phone in spec ops if there was a gang loaded with C3s. Which would be realistic as well...

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jammal Murray

[Jammal Murray]

1 hour ago, Isaak said:

@Jammal Murraythe "IRL XYZ" argument doesnt work on anzus nor do I think it should, class 3s are a way to make gun fights more fun rather than just bedwars warriors spamming their mouse as fast as they can. 

I think the idea of only SWAT getting access to class 3s for a while is interesting to say the least but I feel like if civs get regular class 3s and the majority of cops do not they will complain about the imbalance. 

I also think the idea of a crafter/player driven gun market but it will only ever work with an auction house and or some way to communicate outside of twitter (a dark web of sorts)

I am for the crafter market 100% thats what I ahve been saying from the start

[Charlie Olatunji]

Coming from a pro combat player here you should add class 2s for a few days see how it goes and then add class 3s in rebel for 15-20k and gradually lower the price, also if you do want a crafter run class 3 market I do believe a auction house should be added but the crafter doesn't have to put the guns on the auction house they can ofc just try sell them face to face 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Charlie Olatunji
Adding stuff

[Jordan Olatunji]

The way I see it is pistols are there to please RPers, and option 1 & 2 is also to please RPers.

so either option 3 or keep it as pistols till it is option 3.

^opionon from most intellectually advanced Anzus player 

 

also no one wants to come home from work and sit driving a truck, don’t make it too complicated to get a class 3 since it’s not gonna appeal to the “combat andies” this is why I say either option 3 or keep pistols since I assume class 3s are being added for the “combat andies” and this is almost the same as not having class 3s

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jordan Olatunji

[Jack Barrow 1]

Option 1 sounds good, but to be fair, it would be good to get this in place asap. I've not really enjoyed the server much the last few days as it's been really quiet for police at the times I've been on. 

Would be good to start off by returning more basic class 3's with limited sights for both civs & the majority of police. 

At least we should enable for majors as it looks to be very cop sided.

 

[Phil Mitchell]

Option 3 would be fun 

[Scotty Grahner]

13 hours ago, Jammal Murray said:

anton made a comment already stating he could keep up... sure class 3s will be not as easy access to come by, but labs, pirate ship and crafters... crafters have already said they can do it. People will just have to actually think twice about what they are doing with a class 3 and use it well. 

And Raphael said KD can only handle legal sales, and Anton said it would take time. And I'm not here to bash KD guns, I love what they do, but even back in 5.0 where class 3s were purchaseable from a shop they'd take about a week for a single MK-1 EMR to be ready. They aren't able to handle the demand

[Jammal Murray]

1 hour ago, Scotty Grahner said:

And Raphael said KD can only handle legal sales, and Anton said it would take time. And I'm not here to bash KD guns, I love what they do, but even back in 5.0 where class 3s were purchaseable from a shop they'd take about a week for a single MK-1 EMR to be ready. They aren't able to handle the demand

well hear me out; you have KD, resurge, mafia, bikers, gangsters and other gangs, not to mention private crafters; in Cuba we have been stockpiling and working on crafting as well; just Cuba alone we have enough weapons rn to comfortably do shit and sell weapons and that number is just going up as we have all this time to save up and collect. I am pretty sure we are not the only group like that and tbh there are probably groups that have a much more impressive arsenal at this time. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jammal Murray

[Andy Zhu]

28 minutes ago, Jammal Murray said:

well hear me out; you have KD, resurge, mafia, bikers, gangsters and other gangs, not to mention private crafters; in Cuba we have been stockpiling and working on crafting as well; just Cuba alone we have enough weapons rn to comfortably do shit and sell weapons and that number is just going up as we have all this time to save up and collect. I am pretty sure we are not the only group like that and tbh there are probably groups that have a much more impressive arsenal at this time. 

ANDY ZHU CORPORATION & CLUELESS ENTERPRISES HAVE AND WILL MEET ALL TYPE 3 DEMANDS

[Jammal Murray]

10 hours ago, Jordan Olatunji said:

The way I see it is pistols are there to please RPers, and option 1 & 2 is also to please RPers.

so either option 3 or keep it as pistols till it is option 3.

^opionon from most intellectually advanced Anzus player 

 

also no one wants to come home from work and sit driving a truck, don’t make it too complicated to get a class 3 since it’s not gonna appeal to the “combat andies” this is why I say either option 3 or keep pistols since I assume class 3s are being added for the “combat andies” and this is almost the same as not having class 3s

the problem with this logic is that both options 1 or 2 both allow for class 3s... they just won't be ease of access... you are right not everyone wants to grind a bunch... you don't have too there a multiple avenues to get C3s... pirate ship... weapons cache... labs... crafters... illegal shipments (if readded)... 

[Jammal Murray]

Here is where I will leave it on the thread as I have posted a good bit on here and want to leave more space for others to converse...

option 1 and 2 are worth trying... implement it and see how it goes... the worst that will happen is we see that it doesn't work and go back to the way it usually is... it's not hard to give it a shot and it won't be game/community breaking if it doesn't work out... be open minded and try something new.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jammal Murray

[Borja Sanchez]

What is clear is that we all want rifles now, PVP with a pistol is boring or going to a capture area and going with a small pistol, I think we should think about doing something soon with this, people farm, and farm but for what purpose?

[Nines Crop]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:26 PM, Ryan Hancock said:

Welp. Okay. Brutally honest time. This has been done before and it flopped badly of which resulted in Anzus player base dropping considerably in 4.0. This feels like a re-run of previous mistakes. 

25k for a class 3 is ridiculous you’ll be doing a Knox and a payout will only just cover the class 3 you used if your lucky. Nevermind other majors won’t cover the cost of a class 3.

Conflict will completely die off if this becomes a thing so all the hard work you’ve put into conflict will be thrown out the window so if this becomes a thing you might as well remove conflict with it. 

Not to mention the fact that people grew to hate crafters only for class 3s cause crafters could never keep up with the demand of the players wanting constant class 3s. It just doesn’t work. If crafters are offline and player has no class 3 they don’t want to play because they can’t get a class 3 to use or have to pay a ridiculous amount for a class 3 which won’t happen and will drive players away. Not all people want to have to constantly contact crafters for class 3s. 

Anzus already has so many massive money sinks, don’t make another one.

Majority of people in 4.0 grew to hate SMGs and Pistols only in shops so don’t repeat that again.

I’m all for low tier class 3s being in shops for a reasonable price and higher tier being crafting but anything less than that is a big no from me.

Overall I feel Option 3 is the best one for Anzus as a whole and the longevity of Anzus alongside keeping the player base happy.

Amen

[Squilliam McGuire]

Something needs to be done soon; already noticing server pop dying at times when usually it would have 125 people on. Any implementation that allows players to use class 3's soon would be best. Yes, the server pop will go back up when this implementation occurs. However, it still should be of concern as people are clearly starting to show disinterest in the current stage the server is in (class 1 PVP, money farming, leveling). Roleplay is an essential aspect of the server, and should receive as much attention and feedback as possible. However, the PVP aspect of the server needs to improve and should be prioritized, regardless of whether you are a pvper or not. 

I don't care what battlemetrics says; coming from someone who has been on at peak times every day for the past 2-3 weeks, I can clearly see numbers dropping within the past two days NA and EU times. Why is that? Because people are farming, over and over and over again. All majors are barely being popped, and even then, when they do, I hear people complaining about pistol movement and how it takes 5-6 bullets to kill someone.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Squilliam Castro

[Daniel Wylie]

Option 3... People be crying about class 3's too much, if you dont like class 3's dont involve yourself in the combat and go RP or do runs.

[Dimitri Sokavski]

20 hours ago, Jammal Murray said:

well hear me out; you have KD, resurge, mafia, bikers, gangsters and other gangs, not to mention private crafters; in Cuba we have been stockpiling and working on crafting as well; just Cuba alone we have enough weapons rn to comfortably do shit and sell weapons and that number is just going up as we have all this time to save up and collect. I am pretty sure we are not the only group like that and tbh there are probably groups that have a much more impressive arsenal at this time. 

Lets say each faction including urs have 30 class 3's, all gear up with 1 class 3 each. Thats maybe 5-7 class'3s devided by the people on at the time. U all decide to do a major and u loose that major. that means u have 23 class 3's left and then u all gear up again thats 16 class 3's left. My point is that if u dont win the situation ur gun is gone and those guns run out quick. There is no way u can fund ur whole gang/faction and sell ur guns to other people. Yes there is a lot of guns now but people get tired of crating. Some people want to have fun not just craft 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Dimitri Sokavski
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[Lewis Miller]

Its been pistols for too long. idc what option just release class 3s into the game somehow.

[Seska]

7 hours ago, Daniel Wylie said:

Option 3... People be crying about class 3's too much, if you dont like class 3's dont involve yourself in the combat and go RP or do runs.

I don't think the people who RP/grind and avoid the Class 3 combat are involving themselves lol.. That's not a practical solution.

The problem, in 5.X at least, was the combat andies weren't exactly leaving the roleplay or grind players alone.

[Ching Red]

11 hours ago, Seska said:

I don't think the people who RP/grind and avoid the Class 3 combat are involving themselves lol.. That's not a practical solution.

The problem, in 5.X at least, was the combat andies weren't exactly leaving the roleplay or grind players alone.

it's very easy to say this when you can buy all your guns from a sign for $200 a pop. 

 

I think we should remove the PD Gun signs and require PD to purchase guns from KD Arms or another crafter too, or purchase them at full price like the rest of the server. Thoughts? 

 

I suppose I'll clarify, this is not a direct response to the quote, but all of your responses throughout this thread. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Ching Red